𓁟 host1.bitchan.one

+⧖Care to defend this one, Papists? Care to defend this one, Papists?
+⧖Not a papist but God properly has no gender because He is an immaterial spirit, but it is still appropriate to use masculine pronouns and inappropriate to use feminine ones. Not a papist but God properly has no gender because He is an immaterial spirit, but it is still appropriate to use masculine pronouns and inappropriate to use feminine ones.
𓀐 @Ru~=X=7h: That is just some shit that the Greeks forced into Christianity. Ancient Jews clearly believed that YHWH looked like a human male.

Jeremiah 23:24, Psalm 139:7, Isaiah 40:18, Deuteronomy 4:15-19 Not to mention the complete absurdity of the creator of all things being composed of material substance.

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𓀐 @3rDcP-Km: >creator of all things Creatio ex nihilo did not exist when the new testatment was composed, let alone when the old testament was composed. Genesis originally describes the separation of the preexisting chaotic ocean into land and water, etc. Creation is separated and given form, but no matter is created "from nothing." The idea that matter is some created thing, rather than always existing, was forced into christianity by greek philosophy, and is not native to ancient Hebrew thought or any other ancient near eastern religious system.+ 3

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𓀐 @4JfaqZbb: >The idea that matter is some created thing, rather than always existing, was forced into christianity by greek philosophy Do you have a Greek philosopher in mind to blame for creation ex nihilo? I can't think of or find any clear examples from a quick search. Even Plato's demiurge used preexisting matter. Stoics thought creation out of nothing was impossible and Zeus created the world out of himself. And many philosophers believed that the universe or its most fundamental element(s) have been around forever. Possibly the earliest really strong case of ex nihilo I know of -- even stronger than orthodox ex nihilo imo -- is what's attributed to the Christian gnostic Basilides by the heresiologist Hippolytus. "There was a time when nothing existed, neither matter nor form, nor accident, neither the simple nor the compound, neither the unknowable nor the invisible, neither man nor angel nor god nor any of these things which are called by names or perceived by the mind or the senses. Then, the not-being God, without consciousness, without perception, without purpose, without aim, without passion, without desire, had the will to create the world." Hippolytus thinks Basilides borrowed heavily from Aristotle, but Aristotle thought the universe was eternal, so Aristotle isn't the source for this doctrine. The wikipedia page on the topic says it was first explicitly articulated a bit later, in the late 2nd century, by Theophilus of Antioch, though.+

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𓀐 @x8i?a*tt: This is a false assertion which is laughably indefensible, which is all the atheists on this board seem able to do. Creatio ex nihilo is taught throughout the bible beginning in Genesis 1. “The earth was without form and void” is a primitive manner of saying it did not exist, and then Moses details everything being created by God, even light itself. In Jeremiah 10:11 the Israelites are commanded to tell the pagans “The gods who did not make the heavens and the earth shall perish from the earth and from under the heavens.” In John 1:3 we are told “All things were made through him, and without him was not any thing made that was made.” In Romans 4:17 Paul refers to God as He who “calls into being the things that are not”. So it is very clear from beginning to end that God is the creator of all things according to the scriptures, however, my point was not so much that matter must be created (although it is true it must), but that matter belongs to the category of nature, it is part of the natural order of things. God exists beyond this order, independent of it, and is the creator of it, so for God to be a material entity would fundamentally contradict the biblical worldview on a basic level and posit the existence of something more fundamental than God Himself.+ 1

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𓀐 @6-+SmuEt: >my buddy said he "made a table!!" This is evidence the table was created ex nihilo, and not from pre-existing wood! This also directly contradicts genesis, which says "When God began to create the heavens and the earth, the earth was complete chaos, and darkness covered the face of the deep" implying that the earth and the deep already existed, but were just chaotic and not properly delineated. If you treat your specific faith tradition's interpretation of one specific translation (KJV) as gospel (pun intended) then you will obviously not be able to competently engage with the biblical texts, compared to engaging with them on their own merits. >fundamentally contradict the biblical worldview on a basic level and posit the existence of something more fundamental than God Himself The idea that god is a fundamental mover of ontology itself, rather than just the most powerful god, is a post-biblical dogma that you hold because of your cultural identify as a modern "Christian." It is not present in the bible, and certainly not in the old testament.+

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