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Care to defend this one, Papists?

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𓀐 @zgXbfxze: Isn’t that some form of apostasy or heresy? I’m pretty sure you’re not supposed to worship anyone but God, but these weird cults do it anyway.+

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𓀐 @crajZ??5: Isn’t that the guy who abuses his children?+ 1

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𓀐 @GnU+JtLi: No. Keep stoking those flames. He's literally a prophet. You're braindead.+

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𓀐 @MSRZVfik: Not a papist but God properly has no gender because He is an immaterial spirit, but it is still appropriate to use masculine pronouns and inappropriate to use feminine ones.+ 9

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𓀐 @ES_2x6jX: >He is an immaterial spirit Genesis 3:8. "Then the man and his wife heard the sound of the LORD God as he was walking in the garden in the cool of the day, and they hid from the LORD God among the trees of the garden." How does an immaterial spirit "walk"? Aren't material legs made of flesh required for walking?+ 1

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𓀐 @yLMzLX-9: Whenever God is said to “walk” or to have a hand etc. it is to be understood as an improper intimation being figurative for something else. In this case it refers to God manifesting His presence in the garden by some means.+

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𓀐 @Ru~=X=7h: That is just some shit that the Greeks forced into Christianity. Ancient Jews clearly believed that YHWH looked like a human male.+ 5

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𓀐 @baj5AuCw: Jeremiah 23:24, Psalm 139:7, Isaiah 40:18, Deuteronomy 4:15-19 Not to mention the complete absurdity of the creator of all things being composed of material substance.+ 4

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𓀐 @3rDcP-Km: >creator of all things Creatio ex nihilo did not exist when the new testatment was composed, let alone when the old testament was composed. Genesis originally describes the separation of the preexisting chaotic ocean into land and water, etc. Creation is separated and given form, but no matter is created "from nothing." The idea that matter is some created thing, rather than always existing, was forced into christianity by greek philosophy, and is not native to ancient Hebrew thought or any other ancient near eastern religious system.+ 3

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𓀐 @4JfaqZbb: >The idea that matter is some created thing, rather than always existing, was forced into christianity by greek philosophy Do you have a Greek philosopher in mind to blame for creation ex nihilo? I can't think of or find any clear examples from a quick search. Even Plato's demiurge used preexisting matter. Stoics thought creation out of nothing was impossible and Zeus created the world out of himself. And many philosophers believed that the universe or its most fundamental element(s) have been around forever. Possibly the earliest really strong case of ex nihilo I know of -- even stronger than orthodox ex nihilo imo -- is what's attributed to the Christian gnostic Basilides by the heresiologist Hippolytus. "There was a time when nothing existed, neither matter nor form, nor accident, neither the simple nor the compound, neither the unknowable nor the invisible, neither man nor angel nor god nor any of these things which are called by names or perceived by the mind or the senses. Then, the not-being God, without consciousness, without perception, without purpose, without aim, without passion, without desire, had the will to create the world." Hippolytus thinks Basilides borrowed heavily from Aristotle, but Aristotle thought the universe was eternal, so Aristotle isn't the source for this doctrine. The wikipedia page on the topic says it was first explicitly articulated a bit later, in the late 2nd century, by Theophilus of Antioch, though.+

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𓀐 @x8i?a*tt: This is a false assertion which is laughably indefensible, which is all the atheists on this board seem able to do. Creatio ex nihilo is taught throughout the bible beginning in Genesis 1. “The earth was without form and void” is a primitive manner of saying it did not exist, and then Moses details everything being created by God, even light itself. In Jeremiah 10:11 the Israelites are commanded to tell the pagans “The gods who did not make the heavens and the earth shall perish from the earth and from under the heavens.” In John 1:3 we are told “All things were made through him, and without him was not any thing made that was made.” In Romans 4:17 Paul refers to God as He who “calls into being the things that are not”. So it is very clear from beginning to end that God is the creator of all things according to the scriptures, however, my point was not so much that matter must be created (although it is true it must), but that matter belongs to the category of nature, it is part of the natural order of things. God exists beyond this order, independent of it, and is the creator of it, so for God to be a material entity would fundamentally contradict the biblical worldview on a basic level and posit the existence of something more fundamental than God Himself.+ 1

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𓀐 @6-+SmuEt: >my buddy said he "made a table!!" This is evidence the table was created ex nihilo, and not from pre-existing wood! This also directly contradicts genesis, which says "When God began to create the heavens and the earth, the earth was complete chaos, and darkness covered the face of the deep" implying that the earth and the deep already existed, but were just chaotic and not properly delineated. If you treat your specific faith tradition's interpretation of one specific translation (KJV) as gospel (pun intended) then you will obviously not be able to competently engage with the biblical texts, compared to engaging with them on their own merits. >fundamentally contradict the biblical worldview on a basic level and posit the existence of something more fundamental than God Himself The idea that god is a fundamental mover of ontology itself, rather than just the most powerful god, is a post-biblical dogma that you hold because of your cultural identify as a modern "Christian." It is not present in the bible, and certainly not in the old testament.+

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𓀐 @sB=gfGoJ: >it is still appropriate to use masculine pronouns and inappropriate to use feminine ones. Why+

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𓀐 @g*n9Uqcu: God is a spirit. He's also a man, the man Christ Jesus. And Jesus himself is the express image of the Father, which means that the Father is male.+

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𓀐 @t9sxn?=q: Well? They're flesh and blood men but they're also in the sky?+

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𓀐 @FU~rCg5c: You don’t understand the biblical worldview. In the bible, God is the creator of everything. Nature only exists because God who is beyond it created it. If God was composed of matter, that would place Him within nature, not beyond it. Plato and Aristotle have nothing to do with it.+ 3

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𓀐 @k8V?+fbV: That idea of substance existing a tier down from divinity in a hierarchical sense that matters to the creation of the world is not significantly contained within ancient Jewish doctrine. The idea that substance is a lower form of existence that is created by divine thought and which is inherently lower for being created is entirely reliant on Greek philosophical ideas about matter and it's potentiality. In that lens, God has to be totally immaterial and inhuman because both matter and humanity are a product of divine power and therefore lesser by nature. No ancient Jew was thinking about the "absurdity" of the idea that an anthropomorphic God could create the world. They didn't have that idea of a hierarchy of creation. God could make the world and look like a person because they didn't make up systemic rules about how creation has to work. Ancient Semitic religions generally viewed some amount of matter as being always extant in the first place. The Earth was an always existing naturally barren and infertile dusty clay plain and the God(s) shaped and gave life to it. God(s) shaped this clay into useful and bountiful forms. That is why Genesis focuses on what God did to the Earth to make it hospitable more than the exact mechanics of God creating matter and the laws of physics. Because that was not important to the Ancient Jews. Genesis is not remarkable in its context other than it being just one deity doing the work. But if we do follow that God created the Heavens and Earth totally ex nihilio that still wouldn't create an absurdity about God looking like a human male at all. The Old Testament is clear about God having a personality and being able to feel human emotions. God is able to be angry, pleased, sad, and even regretful. That is a very human deity. Not some abstract Greek demiurge. Ancient Jews thought that God was more than human and greater than humans but also fundamentally of the same shape and ability to think and feel as humans.+ 2

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𓀐 @wdDp5dcz: Imo the Old Testament contains several different Theologies within it. I don't think it uniformly advances one conception of God all the time. That was probably one, possibly one of the most archaic, of the conceptions; one can assume it's in the same stratum as references to primordial waters, the slaying of the sea monster. But the multiple sources clearly aren't in theological agreement all of the time.+ 1

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𓀐 @BHZBmL39: >Imo the Old Testament contains several different Theologies within it. Cool, who assigned that opinion to you? JewTube? Maybe some perverted professor wrote a book? Because the actual Bible is consistent from Genesis to Revelation.+

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𓀐 @whTthnyx: Why are you posting a guy who believes the world is 6000 years old, actively celebrates the murder of minorities, denies the holocaust, regularly beats his children with electric cables, rejects the Nicene creed, and commits the heresies of tritheism and monophysitism?+ 1

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𓀐 @F5FSBR~e: >Why are you posting a guy who believes the world is 6000 years old You mean he actually believes the bible? Wow, how horrible! We need to reject God’s revelation in favor of our own autonomy so we can come up with such great ideas as pregnant men+

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𓀐 @YNqn7mqk: God has a physical dick and balls since he is man-shaped. Since we know from the scriptures that the Human-form is the divine ideal. Get over it heretic.+

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𓀐 @JaoiYMhR: The worst suffering is to realize you will never face accountability. No reward for your virtues no punishment for your failings. Your legacy is emptiness+

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𓀐 @Fhk_gRej: Additionally they share an explanation for how this situation all came to be: 1. They believe in the Monad (the One / Absolute, which is entirely unknowable and not exactly a God but something more, the source of all dependent origin, beyond notions of being and non-being. Essentially representing ultimate undivided reality. 2. From the Monad emanates forth a series of Aeons which are the core concepts, aspects and rules of how reality functions. 3. This leads to complex hierarchies (that vary by sect), of higher Aeons / concepts of reality emanating forth lesser ones. 4. The Aeon known as Wisdom (Sophia) attempts to comprehend the Monad by imitating its method of emanation, but since it is not the Monad, something goes wrong. 5. The result is that Sophia emanates the Demiurge, a flawed creation, which is expelled into the Void of the Kenoma. During this, countless souls worth of the substance of the Pleroma is also expelled via the process. 7. The Demiurge, finding itself alone in the the material realm, and the most powerful being in that reality, it believes itself to be God, despite being flawed / evil. 8. It then creates the physical Universe and living beings. Sophia puts the substance/soul-matter of the Pleroma that fell into the Void into the living vessels so that rather than being permanently stuck it can one day return back to the Pleroma. 9. The Demiurge creates Archons, who take the form of lesser Gods, Angels, Demons, whatever you will call them - beings that aid it in its work. 10. Some of these become aware of the truth of the situation and rebel, in order to help souls escape the material Kenoma, achieve Gnosis / enlightenment, and return to the Ultimate reality. 11. The Demiurge takes on the role of the chief Deity in various pantheons (most notably known via Yahweh in the Old Testament), and while a lot of the OT isn't very accurate, it serves a good example of the cruel, jealous, violent nature of the Demiurge.+

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𓀐 @GnU+JtLi: No. Keep stoking those flames. He's literally a prophet. You're braindead.+

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𓀐 @UTLCXieN: I’m saved. Why would I go to hell for not worshipping a child abusing false prophet? These bizarre ‘charismatic’ cults always confuse me.+

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𓀐 @7b53dPty: >I’m saved. Great, then you're provoking the LORD to strike you down on this earth. Have fun with that. >God made a child abuser like Steven Anderson a prophet? Anderson doesn't abuse children. Those flames just got hotter. >One of God's prophets also tried to threaten God by calling him a liar? Anderson didn't call God a liar. That's another railing accusation. Keep going? >you are 100% going there. No, I'm not.+

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