𓁟 host1.bitchan.one

>Lisp is a family of programming languages with a long history and a distinctive parenthesized prefix notation. There are many dialects of Lisp, including Common Lisp, Scheme, Clojure and Elisp. >Emacs is an extensible, customizable, self-documenting free/libre text editor and computing environment, with a Lisp interpreter at its core. >Emacs Resources https://gnu.org/s/emacs https://github.com/emacs-tw/awesome-emacs https://github.com/systemcrafters/crafted-emacs >Learning Emacs C-h t (Interactive Tutorial) https://emacs-config-generator.fly.dev https://systemcrafters.net/emacs-from-scratch http://xahlee.info/emacs https://emacs.tv >Browse imageboards in Emacs Org-Mode https://github.com/eNotchy/4g >Emacs Distros https://github.com/caisah/emacs.dz >Elisp Docs: C-h f [function] C-h v [variable] C-h k [keybinding] C-h m [mode] M-x ielm [REPL] https://gnu.org/s/emacs/manual/eintr.html https://gnu.org/s/emacs/manual/elisp.html https://github.com/emacs-tw/awesome-elisp >Common Lisp https://almightylisp.com https://lispcookbook.github.io/cl-cookbook https://cs.cmu.edu/~dst/LispBook https://gigamonkeys.com/book https://lisp-docs.github.io https://awesome-cl.com >Scheme https://scheme.org https://standards.scheme.org https://go.scheme.org/awesome https://research.scheme.org/lambda-papers >Clojure https://clojure.org https://clojure-doc.org https://clojure.land https://www.clojure-toolbox.com https://mooc.fi/courses/2014/clojure https://jafingerhut.github.io/cheatsheet/clojuredocs/cheatsheet-tiptip-cdocs-summary.html >Other https://github.com/dundalek/awesome-lisp-languages >Guix https://guix.gnu.org https://nonguix.org https://systemcrafters.net/craft-your-system-with-guix https://futurile.net/resources/guix https://github.com/franzos/awesome-guix >SICP/HtDP https://web.mit.edu/6.001/6.037/sicp.pdf https://htdp.org >More Lisp Resources https://lisp.nexus https://rentry.org/lispresources (set! thread-link >>>/g/lisp) (set! prev-thread )

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𓀐 @-paXCosF: Don't know why these threads are so short-lived all of a sudden, but let's try again.+ 2

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𓀐 @=c?deTnp: What use is a good programming language when nobody even programs anymore+

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𓀐 @Xpw?87Zz: I'm a Clojure fag and too busy writing code. most people discuss Emacs here which idgaf about (I use (Neo)Vim btw). I was planning to comment on the stupidity of static types in (most) situations in the 2nd-to-last thread, but I figured it is a waste of time, because the same shit will be discussed in a week. Lisp is good. Common Lisp has great ideas regarding interactivity, and really BTFO everything else for a couple of decades. I think Clojure is better now. I think an even better lang could be devised. Idk if sexps are the ultimate syntax, PURELY because of accessibility concerns regarding indentation and the discernment of a literal list vs. a function call is not possible in a macro without context (this also makes code formatting difficult). idk what else to say... Lisp is great and most people here asking about it won't even spend an hour trying to solve an AoC problem, so what's the purpose?+

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𓀐 @NGp5_gaq: >Dynamic vs. static types has been an argument that has gone It looks like a done debate today because of vibeshitting. LLMs make random small mistakes or change the code at whim (even when you ask it not to) so strong static types seem like a most See how Rust and Typescript are the most popular languages on GitHub despite being considered pain to write before 2023+ 2

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𓀐 @Ti6q~~zH: The argument was over before LLMs. See how every modern language has a static type system and older languages that didn't have been retrofitted to support them (python type hinting, ruby sorbet, typescript). The obvious reason is that it's hard to know what a variable is a lot of the time in a dynamic type system, and with type inference or gradual typing and modern LSPs, having types is more ergonomic than not. LLMs didn't fundamentally change anything here, they just amplified the existing relationship.+

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𓀐 @5XRzszUx: >See how Rust and Typescript are the most popular languages on GitHub despite being considered pain to write before 2023 Source? I see Javascript and Python. >so strong static types seem like a must Source? The paper I saw didn't show this. They're investing in formal verification: https://www.anthropic.com/research/formal-verification Strong static types just seems like placebo.+

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𓀐 @PP43WY7Y: anyone have any opinions on https://autolith.rocks/ or other lisp based coding agents?+

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𓀐 @4Nv4S6q5: AI can manage its own prompts too. It can write software end to end without human intervention. Other than prose literally what's the use case of something like emacs or vim? Even auxiliary tasks like managing git repos with magit could be done by ai. Everything that can be done in a computer could be done by ai, especially code related or sysadmin related. The only reason to use a text editor is to manage notes, write prose / poetry or manage one's own agenda.+ 1

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𓀐 @bsFF7934: >The only reason to use a text editor is to write prose / poetry but ai can write poetry too, anon+

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𓀐 @E9f5wY+N: Experience. It's relative slowness, of course, I don't think there's any situation today I'd use Python where Clojure wouldn't work from a performance standpoint, and probably the majority of those Clojure would perform better. Maybe I'm still just sore about all the times we had to optimize Clojure by tearing out the nice persistent data structures and replacing them with ugly Java interop code, or even worse rewriting large sections in Java directly. When you do enough of that, you start wondering why you're even bothering not just keeping everything in Java, which on its own terms is not a bad language anymore. https://github.com/python/cpython/blob/2.7/Objects/dictobject.c https://github.com/python/cpython/blob/2.7/Objects/dictnotes.txt Or see Chapter 18 from the book Beautiful Code, "Python's Dictionary Implementation: Being All Things to All People".+

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𓀐 @JVvjh+Vh: The lisptranny can't understand this power.+

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𓀐 @V+PpkH9G: And yet here's what some old school Java looks like, which is part of why so many of us flocked to dynamically typed languages final String jsonPayload = "{\n" + " \"name\": \"Jane Doe\",\n" + " \"email\": \"jane.doe@example.com\"\n" + "}\n"; final ExecutorService executor = Executors.newFixedThreadPool(1); Future<String> futureResponse = executor.submit(new Callable<String>() { @Override public String call() throws Exception { HttpURLConnection connection = null; try { URL url = new URL("https://example.com"); connection = (HttpURLConnection) url.openConnection(); connection.setRequestMethod("POST"); connection.setRequestProperty("Content-Type", "application/json"); connection.setDoOutput(true); try (DataOutputStream wr = new DataOutputStream(connection.getOutputStream())) { wr.writeBytes(jsonPayload); wr.flush(); } int responseCode = connection.getResponseCode(); StringBuilder response = new StringBuilder(); try (BufferedReader in = new BufferedReader(new InputStreamReader(connection.getInputStream()))) { String inputLine; while ((inputLine = in.readLine()) != null) { response.append(inputLine); } } return response.toString(); } finally { if (connection != null) { connection.disconnect(); } } } }); try { String response = futureResponse.get(); formatResponse(response); } catch (Exception e) { e.printStackTrace(); } finally { executor.shutdown(); }+

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𓀐 @jPmML~7w: How good are LLMs at Lisp? Has anyone here slopped Lisp in any serious capacity?+

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𓀐 @=tS*i*7V: coding by hand is nowadays generaly less useful than playing an instrument or learning a language, at least if you already know how to code, if you don't there is still value in learning it imo but yea, no point in handwritting most shit anymore.+

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𓀐 @mJxgcDoq: Cope. The bar has been SIGNIFICANTLY lowered. Anyone with an IQ of 100 (or dare I say, even less) can learn to prompt an AI effectively in a matter of one month. AI is also going to get better in the next few years: we will reach a point where llms write basically perfect code. Coding is solved, software is solved, programming is dead.+

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𓀐 @UtyZBW3n: https://github.com/openai/math https://github.com/openai/NavierStokesAndEuler https://github.com/openai/ten-proofs >But MUH job is harder than Terence Tao's+ 1

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𓀐 @s5QoS=Gu: We have a vibecoder junior at my job and the project he's assigned to has taken many months. Sometimes he's staying at the office past 12AM proooompting because it shits itself constantly or he hits rate limit even though it's a paid account. And what do you think this bespoke project is? Putting data from standardized excel files into a SQLite database and showing them on some web dashboard I don't know what kind of toy projects you jeets work with using AI but it's not getting you out of Heydarabad+

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𓀐 @ycBVng38: Anon even a jeet intern would manage to do that shit in like 2 days max. You can't tell me astra or even sol can't do that right. Even giving it a prompt like "excel -> sqlite -> web dashboard" would work.+

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𓀐 @HKK2apMM: Which LISP does he use?+

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𓀐 @xYP4E-RJ: I did a quick grep and found no reference to `.editorconfig`. you should be using a plugin that looks at `.editorconfig` per project, because it is what most professional projects use. this is what vim-sleuth does. I do not configure my editor's indentation settings, I set those setting per project (or in my root-level "projects" directory). I actually do hardcode Neovim's default indentation settings (tabs with 8-space display), but only to make it obvious when I am not using a .editorconfig.+

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