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For Harry Potter generally and to soak up /tv/ Malfoid rejects in particular. Something I'm curious about; how does /lit/ feel about the Ron/Hermoine romance subplot? Good? Bad? Salvageable? And what makes a good romance subplot for a story like this?

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𓀐 @GpSKCPRf: Genderbent YA fanfiction? This doesn't make you guys feel a little pathetic?+

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𓀐 @wDoDQV+v: The romance between Ron and Hermione? Or, and my hands are trembling on the keyboard with tears in my eyes, between Malfoid and Harry? What's the style choice reason for that?+ 1

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𓀐 @XmK+Jq7r: Oh and also obviously there's no point to a Malfoid fic with no Malfoid romance, so not that. I meant taking out Ron/Hermoine.+

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𓀐 @9nDpWzte: Harry potter on my literature board?+

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𓀐 @zAa*ioq5: I have a real problem with plausibility in a lot of these scenarios like the Yule Ball. People who are horrible to each other don’t just dance with each other. Ron was already being a moody bitch at the ball anyway, he’d go nuts if Harry were dancing with Malfoy as well as Hermione dancing with Krum. Not to mention Malfoy maybe being humiliated too. I feel like a lot of the stuff people are making doesn’t have the setup to justify it.+

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𓀐 @mcsBR4Wr: >"Voldemort is defeated by elder wand technicalities because he doesn't understand shit" I confess I still have no idea what book people read when they go on about that shit. The entire finale hinged on Harry's sacrifice in the forest. The wand was a red herring that Voldemort hoped would serve as insurance against scenarios like those and his pursuit of it is framed as foolish. The only possible scenarios involving that wand was what happened, and it also not working if Dumbledore's original plan had worked. Neville was completely unconnected to that whole thing and the wand wasn't working on him either. Harry being the master is just rubbing salt on the wound on how much that shit would not have worked for him. Did the movies somehow change the whole thing so people think it was the wands that did it?+

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𓀐 @42vjfLEw: The /tv/ threads are useful to tell you what kind of things people are looking for in these stories, they're not useful for telling you how to get there or actually do it.+

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𓀐 @vxMF_oDt: >As in it insults a core part of her character and can't be brushed aside. Again with you and this clumsy binary. Like it either literally cannot happen at all, or it happens is "brushed aside" resulting in inconsistent characters. That is ridiculous. Stories are built around conflict. Conflict is introduced, and conflict is resolved. HOW you resolve the conflict is what makes the story interesting. So we imagine Hermione gets pissed at Harry for going to the dance with Malfoid. They fight, they argue, they reconcile. That's not "brushing it aside" and it's not "character assassination."+

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𓀐 @?iA6XcFn: How do they forgive eachother and get close together after the sectumsempra incident? Since that is viewed as canon, I wonder what would be the best way to resolve it. Some angst is good, but I am struggling to see how to resolve it so they get together after Voldy kicks the bucket at the end of book 7+

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𓀐 @t-*VTN7V: >But then again, as other anons said, does the Crucio spell really have to work and hit him? Yes, I prefer it to, because it makes the emotional climax better and it makes Harry's response make more sense. This is the absolute darkest pit for their relationship, the hole they must climb from to reach the ultimate resolution. I will say that I get the idea of her trying Crucio and failing because she loves him, etc. I like that if you're doing a comic strip on the meme and want to depict her entire internal conflict in a single moment. But I prefer to have Crucio actually land, briefly. So, no girlfriend, confirmed. I'll explain something. Women like to feel emotionally connected to their partner, and sometimes become agitated if they feel a particular emotion is not being shared or acknowledged. It makes them suspect detachment and they will then often do things meant to evoke that feeling (and failing that, ANY feeling). If she's worried about being late but you aren't (eg because you know, rationally, that you have plenty of time), she'll pester you until you either express worry yourself, or acknowledge her feelings and soothe them somehow (maybe make a show of bustling to get ready). Note that the problem wasn't really about being ready or arriving on time, the problem was the sense of emotional disconnect. SHE was worried and you were oblivious to her feelings. So she tries to make you feel what she's feeling. Psychologists call this attachment protest, and it's common behavior even though it's often counter-productive. Malfoid spend 5 years attaching herself to Potter. They were starting to connect. Now they have been forced apart. Harry is not only disconnected from her but actively hostile. She is suffering and has a very deep need to see Harry FEELING that suffering that she feels. It's not productive, rational behavior but it's quite natural.+

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𓀐 @yFtuSXjH: So literally everything about this argument hinges on a wiki definition? >Nobody would be dogpiling you if she used Diffindo on a whim and was horrified with herself after. So it's OK to admit that Malfoid, in that one screwed up abyssal moment that the plot has dragged her to, genuinely wants to inflict pain on Harry. And it's fine that she uses a lame magical scissors spell to do it. THAT's not weird or incongruous at all. But the moment it's Crucio, even pain that lasts just a split second that turns into instant horror and regret, is 100% exactly the same as dragging him into her basement for weeks, stretching him out on the rack while she cackles maniacally? That's what you retards are arguing.+

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𓀐 @vxFs=hTb: >Good romance subplot If it's believable and the characters written have good chemistry. Ron and Hermione do. Harry and Malfoid do. Ginny is just exists in the background and then she's suddenly with Harry. That's bad subplot+ 1

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𓀐 @b_=QD9Kt: In a few sentences or however many you want, what do you feel like works for Ron/Hermoine? Genuine question, I'm like this guy and had the same thoughts at the time but I'm doubting myself. Sure, but what doesn't these days? Women writing themselves into Snape's greasy hands or guys writing themselves as Snape's greasy hands? Both options seem equally awful but curious minds want to know.+

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𓀐 @BDUtPcT8: So is this the /lit/ equivalent of all the /v/ porn threads? What is there to actually “discuss” about Malfoid?+

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𓀐 @~db4nTN=: I think there's something sweet with Ginny Weasley having a super crush on Harry, sorta tried getting over it by dating Dean, then still getting Harry in the end. It could be argued that, on a psychological level, Harry needed to be "admired/adored" in the way that Ginny admired him. Hermione liked Harry, but didn't "worship" him the way many in the wizarding world did. Even though Harry is old blood from the wizarding world (from his father's side, though his from his mother he gets Muggle blood), he still largely grew up thinking he was a Muggle, living as a Muggle lived. Being paired with Ginny mirrors the situation Ronald and Hermione had, an old wizard blood family (Ronald) paired with a Muggle. The union through marriage/love of Muggle and Wizard is a nice theme, on par with other themes in Rowling's world. Voldemort and the Death Eaters had their fair share of Muggle blood, but it was always thought of as shameful, something that could be overlooked or hidden, but never something you'd marry into willingly. The union of Muggle and Wizard in the Death Eater community was not motivated by love. Thematically, Harry getting with Ginny, and Ron with Hermione, makes sense, even if Rowling didn't intend it to be that way. A happy accident.+

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𓀐 @JaT5JV?8: Not really no. They were there because of Guardbro's poorly reasoned plot contrivances. He wanted his OCs in and poorly justified it to shield himself from criticism. >Largely fucked off A lie, they're Malfoid's besties now Faggots are cringe. Cry about it I guess+

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𓀐 @hgSqM6us: Two OC's that were introduced to the reader when Harry spotted them going at it outside the Syltherin dorms. Quite jarring considering how graphic it was, compared to Harry and Malfoid. Harry informs Malfoid, Malfoid starts blackmailing one of them, the other one says "I'm oppressed surely you'd understand" and Malfoid goes "yeh totes babe" and does a weird flirting thing. They become friends, decide the best way to cover their own arses would be for Harry to dance with the short lesbian as to quash rumours about the respective couples and Harry and Draconia decide to practice dancing. Ball happens, lesbian is lecturing Harry the entire time (author hamfistedly justifying the character, Harry needs to be told) until Harry and Draconia slip off and have their moment. With singing armour. After the Ball, Draconia is either hanging about with the lesbians or hanging about Harry or by herself. For example, for the 2nd and 3rd trials, she's sitting with them in the stands. It's two OC's that are hamfisted in, it's transparent, it's shit writing and I genuinely hate faggots and faggot fetishisers.+ 1

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𓀐 @v4zt6Li+: >Quite jarring considering how graphic it was I'm pretty sure two women kissing in public would be jarring for you. >"I'm oppressed surely you'd understand" Not oppressed, Twigs is just a mirror of a secret relationship due to the political nature of their families in relation to the ministry and the required need for wizards to keep making families. >"yeh totes babe" Draconia realizes that they get along well, and feels bad about blackmailing her, in which they enter a mutual exchange of information. >and does a weird flirting thing Draconia makes fun of Twigs for being a lesbian. >They become friends, decide the best way to cover their own arses would be for Harry to dance with the short lesbian as to quash rumours about the respective couples and Harry and Draconia decide to practice dancing. Based. >Ball happens, lesbian is lecturing Harry the entire time It is implied that Twigs is skilled at Divination and may also be a mind reader, or some other form of witch that can feel empathic waves, and in thus reads Harry's mind and warns him to not let his judgement get the better of him. I read the passage, if the writer didn't lay it out flat, people would completely skip by and not understand, like you, for instance. >Harry and Draconia slip off and have their moment. With singing armour. Leading to a sweeter and more romantic first, proper dance. I'm sorry you're too dumb to understand it. >After the Ball, Draconia is either hanging about with the lesbians or hanging about Harry or by herself. For example, for the 2nd and 3rd trials, she's sitting with them in the stands. And? She's friends with Twigs, Autumn is likely to be there. >It's two OC's that are hamfisted in, it's transparent, it's shit writing and I genuinely hate faggots and faggot fetishisers. Just say you're a closeted homosexual Anon, this is a safe place.+

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𓀐 @q*r5gDEZ: I think people's main issue is that they expected romance out of Harry Potter. There's always been a tremendous disconnect between the fanbase's overwhelming obsession with shipping, and the reality that the romance in the books was completely ancillary. The kids get crushes because that's an expected part of growing up, but nobody has a grand dramatic romance. Ron and Hermione don't get any big moment either, they just kiss in a hurry during the last battle. The main spiritual themes in the books are, first and foremost, Death (and the acceptance of), which is where all the most heart-wrenching writing goes into, and filial love second. There is not a single spec of writing in the books with as much feeling into it as Harry's thoughts when standing besides his parent's tomb. Rowling was quite candid that her feelings about dealing with her own mother's death was what formed the core theme of the story. The only truly plot-relevant "romantic love" in the series is an unrealized, tragic one-sided obsession. Even the Lupin-Tonks stuff happens mainly to set up the "Don't run off on your family, you deadbeat" scene and the eventual parallel with an orphaned kid raised by Harry so that he'd be taken care of in the ways he wasn't. The whole resolution at the end hinges on a form of love shown in a Jesus-like sacrifice for many, not a Love Kame-Hame-Ha. I don't think she "realized" anything, that's just projecting expectations on the series. She'd "spent 3 books doing basically nothing to get Harry and Ginny together" because the three books you're referring to are one where Harry has yet to ever express interest in any girl, one where he very briefly notes a certain girl (who has no dialogue) is pretty in a single line, and one where he briefly gets butterflies about asking that chick out in one chapter. There was more ink in GoF dedicated to Ludo Bagman's running from his creditors than romance. Even the books with romance don't exactly have much of it either, OotP nominally had Harry get a girlfriend and it ends up being only a few scenes of "this shit ain't working at all. Even the kiss happen off screen. The reason those books didn't have more romantic developments were not due to poor planning, it was because they weren't meant to have them, and a lot of the fanbase has never quite managed to come to terms with that fact.+

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𓀐 @wRtR2MUf: Malfoid is so Indian-coded I can't see any White Man genuinely enjoying it. >the racist white blonde pureblood aryan is helplessly attrached to you, a filthy mud blood (brown, shitskin) Doesn't anyone notice this?!?!?+

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𓀐 @PzuxndR?: It's not really reductive imo, much the opposite. The conclusion is binary but that's because the logic behind the moment is quite forcing. The issue isn't with Harry and Malfoy. The issue is really Ron and everyone else (but especially Ron). The entire Malfoy family has invested a lot of time hating the Weasleys. They don't like each other. Lucius shits all over Arthur any chance he gets. Harry and Ron are so close you need a very strong reason to get Harry to even consider Malfoy at all viable. Ron also goes to the ball and finds out he's getting cucked by the biggest sports star in the world right now. He's not going to take Malfoy on top of that without a huge bitch fit. The social sphere around them just won't allow for something like this to be even neutral by that point unless you're doing massive rewrites from book 3 at a minimum but more realistically you might even have to soften things in 2.+

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𓀐 @Cb6Z_K-b: What’s with the LLM style writing?+

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𓀐 @NTxuzt2k: >I don't think it's a stretch that in a moment of panic and duress he would reach for a spell that was on the forefront of his mind and provided by a mentor he trusted. I do think it's a stretch. It's just not believable. Yes I've heard all these explanations. It just doesn't add up. JKR wanted the scene but didn't really earn it as far as I'm concerned >Harry had also been suffering quite a bit throughout book 5, It's not the same. > barely affects the psychotic woman who just murdered the closest thing he has to family to the point she immediately starts mocking him for not being able to use it. He doesn't really know Bellatrix, though. She's largely alien to him, until that moment nothing but a picture in Kreacher's stash, a woman he saw once in someone else's memory. Malfoid on the other hand, resentments toward Harry specifically. She has a personal connection with him and his emotions. Hurting Harry would mean something to her in a way that hurting Bellatrix has no meaning for Harry. >she has to enjoy the idea of him writhing in agony Eh, that's your headcanon. JKR is not always perfectly consistent with the rules on her spells and Bellatrix isn't exactly the most reliable narrator. I think genuine desire to cause pain doesn't necessarily mean a sadistic psychopath, even if righteous anger isn't sufficient. And again, Malfoid's been hanging with Death Eaters. >I mean, if you think that's wife material then go nuts. It's extraordinary circumstances, it's an epic story of love and redemption through a time of hardship and strife. It's an exaggerated, elevated depiction of the truth of human experience, which does indeed involved love ones causing pain to each other on purpose, followed by forgiveness and reconciliation. The common sense pairing was always Ginny Weasley, even with Rowling's inverted approach that everyone (male) hates. Writing Malfoid means you're explicitly rejecting that common sense outcome in favor of High Romance.+

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𓀐 @ZXgKhfmL: People get a little too hung up on the wording of "for enemies", it's dramatic but a lot of the magic stuff is dramatic so it pretty much goes with the norm. You could easily assume the HBP labeled it that just to get the point of it being a combat spell across in the middle of all the other random notes he wrote down, Harry clearly thinks it's not that out of place in the original canon, especially since there's no further instructions written down and it's been established in 4-5 that the really serious business curses need both power and immense intent to cast correctly.+

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